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	<title>Comments on: Chapter Book Newbery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/</link>
	<description>A Mock Newbery Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-44745</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-44745</guid>
		<description>I have an academic film background, as well. What the film critic thinks of when s/he thinks of film noir and what the general public thinks of are different. It doesn&#039;t really matter, but reading regular-public reviews, you will find people talking about film noir with this book; people are more likely to be familiar with, say, The Maltese Falcon (or, to be honest, parodies of The Maltese Falcon) than with the actual novels. Anyway. To answer Mr. H&#039;s question: I think it would matter that children didn&#039;t get the references IF it was only funny/enjoyable/understandable because of the references. If kids can enjoy it just as it is, and I think they will--if the plot makes sense, and it certainly does--then it doesn&#039;t matter. Many of the more recent children&#039;s movies are full of references and parodies that children don&#039;t get (Shrek, Enchanted). 

But you take this question a bit deeper with your first comment, about the style; we recognize it as being distinguished because we do get the parody. I think it&#039;s true that someone who had no cultural references for this kind of storytelling might not recognize it as distinguished, but that doesn&#039;t mean it isn&#039;t, I think. There are lots of Newbery books that kids might read and wonder &quot;why did THIS win the award?&quot; about; the key is that they&#039;ve just read some distinguished literature, even if they don&#039;t recognize it as such yet. It&#039;s easier for me to think of this in terms of the Caldecott. I remember vividly an elementary school librarian book-talking some Caldecott books, and holding up one and telling us that we might look at this and wonder why it was special because the drawings looked like they were easy to do, but that this was great art and we&#039;d have to take her word for it right now. (I don&#039;t know what the book was now, though I&#039;d know it if I saw it.) I think it&#039;s okay if kids aren&#039;t able to recognize all the distinguished features of a book right away, as long as it&#039;s still a good read for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an academic film background, as well. What the film critic thinks of when s/he thinks of film noir and what the general public thinks of are different. It doesn&#8217;t really matter, but reading regular-public reviews, you will find people talking about film noir with this book; people are more likely to be familiar with, say, The Maltese Falcon (or, to be honest, parodies of The Maltese Falcon) than with the actual novels. Anyway. To answer Mr. H&#8217;s question: I think it would matter that children didn&#8217;t get the references IF it was only funny/enjoyable/understandable because of the references. If kids can enjoy it just as it is, and I think they will&#8211;if the plot makes sense, and it certainly does&#8211;then it doesn&#8217;t matter. Many of the more recent children&#8217;s movies are full of references and parodies that children don&#8217;t get (Shrek, Enchanted). </p>
<p>But you take this question a bit deeper with your first comment, about the style; we recognize it as being distinguished because we do get the parody. I think it&#8217;s true that someone who had no cultural references for this kind of storytelling might not recognize it as distinguished, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t, I think. There are lots of Newbery books that kids might read and wonder &#8220;why did THIS win the award?&#8221; about; the key is that they&#8217;ve just read some distinguished literature, even if they don&#8217;t recognize it as such yet. It&#8217;s easier for me to think of this in terms of the Caldecott. I remember vividly an elementary school librarian book-talking some Caldecott books, and holding up one and telling us that we might look at this and wonder why it was special because the drawings looked like they were easy to do, but that this was great art and we&#8217;d have to take her word for it right now. (I don&#8217;t know what the book was now, though I&#8217;d know it if I saw it.) I think it&#8217;s okay if kids aren&#8217;t able to recognize all the distinguished features of a book right away, as long as it&#8217;s still a good read for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hunt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-44711</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-44711</guid>
		<description>I think children can appreciate the style of the prose in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS even if they do not recognize it as being an homage to hard boiled detective fiction (thanks for the distinction, Eric).

A couple more chapter books to keep an eye out for: GOONEY BIRD ON THE MAP by Lois Lowry and SPUNKY TELLS ALL by Ann Cameron (two starred reviews).  Anyone read either of them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think children can appreciate the style of the prose in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS even if they do not recognize it as being an homage to hard boiled detective fiction (thanks for the distinction, Eric).</p>
<p>A couple more chapter books to keep an eye out for: GOONEY BIRD ON THE MAP by Lois Lowry and SPUNKY TELLS ALL by Ann Cameron (two starred reviews).  Anyone read either of them?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-44688</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-44688</guid>
		<description>So . . . is that a knock on the book? That kids may not pick up on the references? (Serious question.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So . . . is that a knock on the book? That kids may not pick up on the references? (Serious question.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-44669</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-44669</guid>
		<description>I really ENJOYED TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS and read it to my second graders last spring.  They enjoyed the book but didn&#039;t get any of the hardboiled detective references.

[irrelavent aside]
In some of the comments above some of you were refering to the story as a send up on film noir.  I think it&#039;s much more accurate to use the term hard boiled detective fiction (works of Hammett and Chandler being the most acclaimed).
Film noir really refers to the style and not neccessarily content.  It&#039;s not a genre per se more of a loose collection of post ww2 films recognizable by the heavy use of chiaroscuro lighting techniques.  Yes many hard boiled detective novels were turned into films that we would consider film noir but there are an equally large number of films noir which do not feature detectives, cops, femmes fatale, or any of the other hard boiled detective fiction tropes seen in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS.



Corin no doubt watch a number of hardboiled detective films that fall into the film noir style while writing TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS but i&#039;m pretty sure she also went back to the source material (again Chandler and Hammett most likely) as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really ENJOYED TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS and read it to my second graders last spring.  They enjoyed the book but didn&#8217;t get any of the hardboiled detective references.</p>
<p>[irrelavent aside]<br />
In some of the comments above some of you were refering to the story as a send up on film noir.  I think it&#8217;s much more accurate to use the term hard boiled detective fiction (works of Hammett and Chandler being the most acclaimed).<br />
Film noir really refers to the style and not neccessarily content.  It&#8217;s not a genre per se more of a loose collection of post ww2 films recognizable by the heavy use of chiaroscuro lighting techniques.  Yes many hard boiled detective novels were turned into films that we would consider film noir but there are an equally large number of films noir which do not feature detectives, cops, femmes fatale, or any of the other hard boiled detective fiction tropes seen in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS.</p>
<p>Corin no doubt watch a number of hardboiled detective films that fall into the film noir style while writing TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS but i&#8217;m pretty sure she also went back to the source material (again Chandler and Hammett most likely) as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-44663</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-44663</guid>
		<description>Ok, question for Wendy or Jonathan: Wendy says that some adult readers have expressed that kids won&#039;t get the jokes in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS if they aren&#039;t familiar with film noir . . . Is this something the Newbery cares about? Or does this fit under appropriateness or style? Because part of me thinks, that children aren&#039;t always going to have the schema to go along with particular styles or themes of books, and that it&#039;s the books&#039; job to build that knowledge or introduce children to something new. 

With THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS, if one of it&#039;s strongest &quot;distinguished&quot; elements is it&#039;s style, yet the style is a play off of film noir which many children might not be familiar of, does that hurt the book when discussing it as a Newbery?

And I actually wouldn&#039;t be surprised if kids did pick up on the style and recognize it as a &quot;black and white&quot;, old-fashioned, voice over sort of detective book. They might not know the &quot;term&quot; film noir, but I think they&#039;d recognize it for what it is. I&#039;d fully endorse this one getting some discussion time on here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, question for Wendy or Jonathan: Wendy says that some adult readers have expressed that kids won&#8217;t get the jokes in THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS if they aren&#8217;t familiar with film noir . . . Is this something the Newbery cares about? Or does this fit under appropriateness or style? Because part of me thinks, that children aren&#8217;t always going to have the schema to go along with particular styles or themes of books, and that it&#8217;s the books&#8217; job to build that knowledge or introduce children to something new. </p>
<p>With THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS, if one of it&#8217;s strongest &#8220;distinguished&#8221; elements is it&#8217;s style, yet the style is a play off of film noir which many children might not be familiar of, does that hurt the book when discussing it as a Newbery?</p>
<p>And I actually wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if kids did pick up on the style and recognize it as a &#8220;black and white&#8221;, old-fashioned, voice over sort of detective book. They might not know the &#8220;term&#8221; film noir, but I think they&#8217;d recognize it for what it is. I&#8217;d fully endorse this one getting some discussion time on here!</p>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-40791</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-40791</guid>
		<description>I thought The Trouble with Chickens was great, but to be honest I never thought about it as a Newbery possibility.  I don&#039;t see why not, but I&#039;d have to take another look to make an argument either way.  I loved The Dunderheads, but never thought of it while reading Chickens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought The Trouble with Chickens was great, but to be honest I never thought about it as a Newbery possibility.  I don&#8217;t see why not, but I&#8217;d have to take another look to make an argument either way.  I loved The Dunderheads, but never thought of it while reading Chickens.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hunt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-40771</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-40771</guid>
		<description>Yes, they are both riffs on film noir.  It just doesn&#039;t feel as fresh the second time around.  That&#039;s my problem, not the book&#039;s.  I just reread SIR GAWAIN THE TRUE last night and really think that one deserves a closer look . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they are both riffs on film noir.  It just doesn&#8217;t feel as fresh the second time around.  That&#8217;s my problem, not the book&#8217;s.  I just reread SIR GAWAIN THE TRUE last night and really think that one deserves a closer look . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-40697</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-40697</guid>
		<description>Yes, I liked it a lot. Some adult readers have expressed concern that kids won&#039;t get the jokes if they aren&#039;t familiar with film noir, but I think they&#039;ll still like it and laugh. And isn&#039;t that what reminds you of The Dunderheads, Jonathan--that they&#039;re both riffs on classic films/novels, rather than that this is derivative of The Dunderheads? In any case, I could get behind this as your younger pick for the shortlist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I liked it a lot. Some adult readers have expressed concern that kids won&#8217;t get the jokes if they aren&#8217;t familiar with film noir, but I think they&#8217;ll still like it and laugh. And isn&#8217;t that what reminds you of The Dunderheads, Jonathan&#8211;that they&#8217;re both riffs on classic films/novels, rather than that this is derivative of The Dunderheads? In any case, I could get behind this as your younger pick for the shortlist.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hunt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-40687</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-40687</guid>
		<description>Did anybody read THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS by Doreen Cronin?  She scored such massive hits with the CLICK CLACK MOO and DIARY OF A WORM series that I was very eager to see her try her hand at chapter books.  I read it ages ago, and just forgot to mention it.  I liked it well enough, but the narrative voice reminded me of THE DUNDERHEADS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anybody read THE TROUBLE WITH CHICKENS by Doreen Cronin?  She scored such massive hits with the CLICK CLACK MOO and DIARY OF A WORM series that I was very eager to see her try her hand at chapter books.  I read it ages ago, and just forgot to mention it.  I liked it well enough, but the narrative voice reminded me of THE DUNDERHEADS.</p>
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		<title>By: Monica Edinger</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/2011/09/22/chapter-book-newbery/#comment-39145</link>
		<dc:creator>Monica Edinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/heavymedal/?p=1378#comment-39145</guid>
		<description>Kathi&#039;s, that is:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathi&#8217;s, that is:)</p>
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