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	<title>Comments on: Defining the terms, part 2</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/</link>
	<description>by Karyn Silverman and Sarah Couri</description>
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		<title>By: Karyn Silverman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Silverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Roger&#039;s &quot;rant&quot; is starting to sound like all of my (and others&#039;) arguments when the BBYA changes happened (for those newer to these discussions, what is now the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ala.org/ala/mgrps/divs/yalsa/booklistsawards/bestficya/bfyahome.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Best Fiction for Young Adults&lt;/a&gt; list from YALSA was once the Best Books and adult books were fair game). But strangely what was a passionate cause for me for the list doesn&#039;t bother me at all for the award. Possibly in part because I read an average of 300 books each year on BBYA (closer to 400 my first year) whereas I only finished about 100 books when I served on Printz, in part because of the criteria but also because the playing field was narrower. To assess all of the adult books would be nearly impossible, especially with appeal removed from the equation (although really if the Printz were open to adult books that element of the criteria would also have to change otherwise how could one state that it was in any way a book for YAs?). I also like that the Printz as a YA-only award has raised the bar for what is published as YA. That&#039;s a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger&#8217;s &#8220;rant&#8221; is starting to sound like all of my (and others&#8217;) arguments when the BBYA changes happened (for those newer to these discussions, what is now the <a href="http://www.ala.org/ala/mgrps/divs/yalsa/booklistsawards/bestficya/bfyahome.cfm" rel="nofollow">Best Fiction for Young Adults</a> list from YALSA was once the Best Books and adult books were fair game). But strangely what was a passionate cause for me for the list doesn&#8217;t bother me at all for the award. Possibly in part because I read an average of 300 books each year on BBYA (closer to 400 my first year) whereas I only finished about 100 books when I served on Printz, in part because of the criteria but also because the playing field was narrower. To assess all of the adult books would be nearly impossible, especially with appeal removed from the equation (although really if the Printz were open to adult books that element of the criteria would also have to change otherwise how could one state that it was in any way a book for YAs?). I also like that the Printz as a YA-only award has raised the bar for what is published as YA. That&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: rockinlibrarian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>rockinlibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-112</guid>
		<description>I just want to say Thank You for both this blog and this discussion. The Printz has always kind of puzzled me, and as a YA librarian I am ashamed of my puzzlement! I&#039;m kind of glad that even people who have served on the committee admit to not being entirely clear on it sometimes! Keep up the good work-- I don&#039;t feel qualified to pitch into much of the discussion myself (I think I&#039;m more of the &quot;I just liked/didn&#039;t like it&quot; type), but I will definitely be reading along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to say Thank You for both this blog and this discussion. The Printz has always kind of puzzled me, and as a YA librarian I am ashamed of my puzzlement! I&#8217;m kind of glad that even people who have served on the committee admit to not being entirely clear on it sometimes! Keep up the good work&#8211; I don&#8217;t feel qualified to pitch into much of the discussion myself (I think I&#8217;m more of the &#8220;I just liked/didn&#8217;t like it&#8221; type), but I will definitely be reading along.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sutton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Sure enough, Sarah. And I&#039;ve never understood how American Born Chinese won the Printz despite First Second&#039;s refusal to call it YA. Whenever I have asked them if a particular title was published for teens or not they&#039;ve said &quot;we leave that for you to judge.&quot; Which is fine for the Horn Book&#039;s purposes (we passed on Level Up, for example, which I loved but found &quot;collegey&quot; to coin a word) but would seem to disallow all their books from Printz consideration.

Limiting consideration to YA-designated titles still leaves the committee with an embarrassment of riches but it also excludes books like The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time or, this year, Ready Player One, not a great book but certainly YA and a crowd-pleaser. It also takes away what should be at the core of YA librarianship, the responsibility to find and promote materials of value to teens from all kinds of publishers and producers, not just those for whom it makes financial sense to label their products &quot;YA.&quot; What if Book Thief had been published as adult, the way it was overseas? It seems to me a shame and an abnegation of professional responsibility to allow publishers to make the first cut for an award that--I think--should mirror the intrinsic crossover nature of YA librarianship and literature. Oh God, I&#039;m ranting. Sorry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure enough, Sarah. And I&#8217;ve never understood how American Born Chinese won the Printz despite First Second&#8217;s refusal to call it YA. Whenever I have asked them if a particular title was published for teens or not they&#8217;ve said &#8220;we leave that for you to judge.&#8221; Which is fine for the Horn Book&#8217;s purposes (we passed on Level Up, for example, which I loved but found &#8220;collegey&#8221; to coin a word) but would seem to disallow all their books from Printz consideration.</p>
<p>Limiting consideration to YA-designated titles still leaves the committee with an embarrassment of riches but it also excludes books like The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time or, this year, Ready Player One, not a great book but certainly YA and a crowd-pleaser. It also takes away what should be at the core of YA librarianship, the responsibility to find and promote materials of value to teens from all kinds of publishers and producers, not just those for whom it makes financial sense to label their products &#8220;YA.&#8221; What if Book Thief had been published as adult, the way it was overseas? It seems to me a shame and an abnegation of professional responsibility to allow publishers to make the first cut for an award that&#8211;I think&#8211;should mirror the intrinsic crossover nature of YA librarianship and literature. Oh God, I&#8217;m ranting. Sorry!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Couri</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Couri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-109</guid>
		<description>The line between YA and Adult is very slippery, Roger, but it does sometimes err on the YA side. Look at Book Thief. Look at everything Margo Lanagan has ever written, ever. Look at First Second, which refuses to give any kind of age recommendation at all. YALSA has been firm about that eligibility, but I&#039;m not convinced that it&#039;s meant that we&#039;ve consistently lost amazing titles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The line between YA and Adult is very slippery, Roger, but it does sometimes err on the YA side. Look at Book Thief. Look at everything Margo Lanagan has ever written, ever. Look at First Second, which refuses to give any kind of age recommendation at all. YALSA has been firm about that eligibility, but I&#8217;m not convinced that it&#8217;s meant that we&#8217;ve consistently lost amazing titles.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sutton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Karyn, that&#039;s probably the most interesting aspect of the Printz, that the YA genre has grown and changed so substantially since the award began. But as the criteria are written (and this is one thing they *are* firm about) only books published by juvenile divisions of publishing companies are eligible, as they are the only books that get the age-level designation that the criteria demand. Perks of Being a Wallflower was famously ineligible in the award&#039;s early years, and I wonder what the committee misses now because of this restriction.

It may be that the Printz doesn&#039;t need the etched-in-stone criteria of the ALSC awards. The National Book Awards, as someone pointed out somewhere in this discussion, don&#039;t have criteria beyond eligibility, and the Boston Globe Horn-Book Award judges are only told to honor &quot;excellence.&quot; Could that be enough for the Printz?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karyn, that&#8217;s probably the most interesting aspect of the Printz, that the YA genre has grown and changed so substantially since the award began. But as the criteria are written (and this is one thing they *are* firm about) only books published by juvenile divisions of publishing companies are eligible, as they are the only books that get the age-level designation that the criteria demand. Perks of Being a Wallflower was famously ineligible in the award&#8217;s early years, and I wonder what the committee misses now because of this restriction.</p>
<p>It may be that the Printz doesn&#8217;t need the etched-in-stone criteria of the ALSC awards. The National Book Awards, as someone pointed out somewhere in this discussion, don&#8217;t have criteria beyond eligibility, and the Boston Globe Horn-Book Award judges are only told to honor &#8220;excellence.&#8221; Could that be enough for the Printz?</p>
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		<title>By: Karyn Silverman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Silverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-104</guid>
		<description>Thanks KT! 

Roger, please note that I said &quot;bloated?&quot;, and that was a &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; carefully considered punctuation mark! I haven&#039;t served on the Newbery committee (and given my definite upper YA bias am unlikely to do so), so it seems a bit presumptuous to comment too strongly on something I haven&#039;t lived by. I have lived by the Printz criteria, and whether I say discussion or you say notes, we all mean the same thing: the criteria do not feel finished, which has some definite drawbacks. I think the dialogue (which Sarah and I modeled here, and which happens in various forms for every incarnation of the committee) is critical to the process, but it would be lovely of the dialogue could focus not on grammar and unfinished or unclear notions but only on the meat: what are the markers of (high) quality? When we say literary excellence, what components play into that?

My gut sense is that the criteria have been locked into this seemingly nascent form due to the YA need to say &quot;We&#039;re not the establishment! Yay!&quot; That doesn&#039;t excuse the grammatical issues, but it might explain why specific books are cited years after they have stopped being the best examples of books without moral or uplifting endings, which seems to be what &quot;realistic hope&quot; actually means. Years after a moral or uplifting ending is even expected as the only option. We&#039;ve come a really long way in YA literature. We&#039;ve come a long way as a profession too, and YALSA has had huge momentum as an organization, but we just can&#039;t get over the past: we apologize. We feel the need to state what YA isn&#039;t (problem novels) instead of shouting about the awesome things that it is. We&#039;re still the scrappy kid sibling in the kidlit world (kidlit, the prevalence of the word children&#039;s in publishing imprint names) and I wonder how much of that we bring on ourselves by behaving like the kid? That&#039;s only tangentially related to this, though, so I will stop there and save what could be a rant for a post, perhaps in January.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks KT! </p>
<p>Roger, please note that I said &#8220;bloated?&#8221;, and that was a <em>very</em> carefully considered punctuation mark! I haven&#8217;t served on the Newbery committee (and given my definite upper YA bias am unlikely to do so), so it seems a bit presumptuous to comment too strongly on something I haven&#8217;t lived by. I have lived by the Printz criteria, and whether I say discussion or you say notes, we all mean the same thing: the criteria do not feel finished, which has some definite drawbacks. I think the dialogue (which Sarah and I modeled here, and which happens in various forms for every incarnation of the committee) is critical to the process, but it would be lovely of the dialogue could focus not on grammar and unfinished or unclear notions but only on the meat: what are the markers of (high) quality? When we say literary excellence, what components play into that?</p>
<p>My gut sense is that the criteria have been locked into this seemingly nascent form due to the YA need to say &#8220;We&#8217;re not the establishment! Yay!&#8221; That doesn&#8217;t excuse the grammatical issues, but it might explain why specific books are cited years after they have stopped being the best examples of books without moral or uplifting endings, which seems to be what &#8220;realistic hope&#8221; actually means. Years after a moral or uplifting ending is even expected as the only option. We&#8217;ve come a really long way in YA literature. We&#8217;ve come a long way as a profession too, and YALSA has had huge momentum as an organization, but we just can&#8217;t get over the past: we apologize. We feel the need to state what YA isn&#8217;t (problem novels) instead of shouting about the awesome things that it is. We&#8217;re still the scrappy kid sibling in the kidlit world (kidlit, the prevalence of the word children&#8217;s in publishing imprint names) and I wonder how much of that we bring on ourselves by behaving like the kid? That&#8217;s only tangentially related to this, though, so I will stop there and save what could be a rant for a post, perhaps in January.</p>
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		<title>By: KT Horning</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>KT Horning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Roger, you&#039;ve hit on my own major pet peeve -- the use of &quot;quality&quot; to mean &quot;high quality.&quot; I cringe every time I hear an English teacher say she&#039;s looking for &quot;quality literature.&quot; 

You&#039;re right about the criteria sounding like Hazel Rochman&#039;s notes, specifically, her responses to suggestions others had made about what they wanted to see included in the criteria. It is rather odd that they stand as the official guidelines so many years later. 

I think Sarah and Karyn&#039;s excellent dialogue seen here about the criteria should become part of the official criteria. Their comments are illuminating.  I&#039;d love to hear from other people who have served on the Printz Award Committee about how they used or interpreted the criteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, you&#8217;ve hit on my own major pet peeve &#8212; the use of &#8220;quality&#8221; to mean &#8220;high quality.&#8221; I cringe every time I hear an English teacher say she&#8217;s looking for &#8220;quality literature.&#8221; </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about the criteria sounding like Hazel Rochman&#8217;s notes, specifically, her responses to suggestions others had made about what they wanted to see included in the criteria. It is rather odd that they stand as the official guidelines so many years later. </p>
<p>I think Sarah and Karyn&#8217;s excellent dialogue seen here about the criteria should become part of the official criteria. Their comments are illuminating.  I&#8217;d love to hear from other people who have served on the Printz Award Committee about how they used or interpreted the criteria.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Couri</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Couri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Karyn, I agree -- I, too, prefer more freedom and flexibility to something too confining. 

And while I think that the Printz criteria  would benefit from rewriting, ultimately I like that it feels like a discussion, or a starting place for discussion. As a committee member, it felt like permission to thoughtfully consider what constitutes excellence in reading. I didn&#039;t feel intimidated or constricted by someone else&#039;s version of awesome. That (very general) list seemed like permission to take each book on its own terms and ask, was this particular title successful? Does it merit further discussion? Another read? Although the criteria themselves are largely rooted in the negative, the end result for me was that they functioned as a reminder to read from a positive place: what was good about this title?

And now I&#039;m curious about what criteria look like for other awards. 

Very quickly, this is what the National Book Award says: &quot;Each panel reads all of the books submitted in their category over the course of the summer. This number typically ranges from 150 titles (Poetry) to upwards of 500 titles (Nonfiction). In September, each panel compiles a “shortlist” of five Finalists. They may arrive at these choices using whatever criteria they deem appropriate, as long as they do not conflict with the official Award guidelines.&quot; And the official guidelines are here: http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaentry.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karyn, I agree &#8212; I, too, prefer more freedom and flexibility to something too confining. </p>
<p>And while I think that the Printz criteria  would benefit from rewriting, ultimately I like that it feels like a discussion, or a starting place for discussion. As a committee member, it felt like permission to thoughtfully consider what constitutes excellence in reading. I didn&#8217;t feel intimidated or constricted by someone else&#8217;s version of awesome. That (very general) list seemed like permission to take each book on its own terms and ask, was this particular title successful? Does it merit further discussion? Another read? Although the criteria themselves are largely rooted in the negative, the end result for me was that they functioned as a reminder to read from a positive place: what was good about this title?</p>
<p>And now I&#8217;m curious about what criteria look like for other awards. </p>
<p>Very quickly, this is what the National Book Award says: &#8220;Each panel reads all of the books submitted in their category over the course of the summer. This number typically ranges from 150 titles (Poetry) to upwards of 500 titles (Nonfiction). In September, each panel compiles a “shortlist” of five Finalists. They may arrive at these choices using whatever criteria they deem appropriate, as long as they do not conflict with the official Award guidelines.&#8221; And the official guidelines are here: <a href="http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaentry.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaentry.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sutton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Karyn, you think the Newbery  criteria are bloated? Yikes, they are a model of concision compared to the Printz, whose &quot;rules&quot; still read more like Hazel Rochman&#039;s notes than a finished document. And I wish somebody would copyedit the damn thing: the usage of &quot;quality&quot; without a qualifying adjective (good quality, poor quality) drives me crazy, as does &quot;a realistic hope - well, what about Robert Cormier&#039;s Chocolate War or Brock Coles&#039; The Facts Speak for Themselves?&quot; What does that even MEAN? (Forgive the all caps but if the Printz CRITERIA can so INDULGE than so will I ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karyn, you think the Newbery  criteria are bloated? Yikes, they are a model of concision compared to the Printz, whose &#8220;rules&#8221; still read more like Hazel Rochman&#8217;s notes than a finished document. And I wish somebody would copyedit the damn thing: the usage of &#8220;quality&#8221; without a qualifying adjective (good quality, poor quality) drives me crazy, as does &#8220;a realistic hope &#8211; well, what about Robert Cormier&#8217;s Chocolate War or Brock Coles&#8217; The Facts Speak for Themselves?&#8221; What does that even MEAN? (Forgive the all caps but if the Printz CRITERIA can so INDULGE than so will I <img src='http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: KT Horning</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2011/10/03/defining-the-terms-part-2/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>KT Horning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=42#comment-73</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the quick response about Honor Books, Karyn. 

Mark and Karyn, I think another reason the Printz is so different from the Newbery is that the Printz has much more open eligibility rules.  Also, frankly, I think at this point in history, we see much more &quot;venturesome creativity&quot; in YA lit than in children&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the quick response about Honor Books, Karyn. </p>
<p>Mark and Karyn, I think another reason the Printz is so different from the Newbery is that the Printz has much more open eligibility rules.  Also, frankly, I think at this point in history, we see much more &#8220;venturesome creativity&#8221; in YA lit than in children&#8217;s.</p>
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