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	<title>Comments on: More Roundup (Debut Style!)</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/</link>
	<description>by Karyn Silverman and Sarah Couri</description>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10226</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10226</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d agree with Maureen that looking at award winners isn&#039;t a good way to gauge the ratio of &#039;girl&#039; books to &#039;boy&#039; books (however you define those terms). I order YA fiction for my library and it seems like each month there are scads of realistic, girl-centric novels to choose from (based off reading reviews in SLJ, Booklist, etc.) I know there&#039;s demand in my library for realistic stories with a little romance, friendship, humor, etc. Most of those books end up having girly covers and girls as main characters, but I rarely see reviews of the male equivalent - realistic, funny, romance, but with male protagonists and covers and plot summaries that wouldn&#039;t embarrass the average guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree with Maureen that looking at award winners isn&#8217;t a good way to gauge the ratio of &#8216;girl&#8217; books to &#8216;boy&#8217; books (however you define those terms). I order YA fiction for my library and it seems like each month there are scads of realistic, girl-centric novels to choose from (based off reading reviews in SLJ, Booklist, etc.) I know there&#8217;s demand in my library for realistic stories with a little romance, friendship, humor, etc. Most of those books end up having girly covers and girls as main characters, but I rarely see reviews of the male equivalent &#8211; realistic, funny, romance, but with male protagonists and covers and plot summaries that wouldn&#8217;t embarrass the average guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Karyn Silverman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10216</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Silverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10216</guid>
		<description>Maureen, Elizabeth -- I am going to now generalize wildly! In my population (which is small, diverse, and has slightly more girls than boys), I see a few things. I have far more long form narrative readers among girls than boys. A smaller percentage of the girls who read for pleasure regularly exclusively want the books I would classify as &quot;smart funny contemporary,&quot; especially the ones that have zero or nearly zero romance. My girls fall into lots of different groups -- I have urban fiction readers, paranormal romance readers, contemporary fiction readers, readers who want more like author X (usually Green, Dessen, or Hopkins), fantasy readers, nondiscriminatory readers, sad book readers, mystery readers, etc. I could slot almost every boy who reads regularly into one of only three or four groups -- sci fi and/or fantasy, nonfiction, and those smart funny contemporary novels. Maybe my male population is less diverse, or maybe the ways we socialize boys about reading has formed these tastes before I ever get them in high school, but either way the effect on their taste is real. 

Going back to the question of data -- in my experience, yes, those books exist, but there are relatively few compared to other genres (for lack of a better word) -- with protagonists of either gender. And there are especially relatively few with male protagonists when you cut out the ones that skew to the 12-14 end of YA -- I see a much larger selection in the middle school collection, but my boys don&#039;t want 8th grade protagonists. There are also books with male protagonists that don&#039;t fit the rest of the description, all of which matters statistically (and here, and makes for interesting discussion) but matters not a whit for me as a working librarian with flesh and blood students. And &lt;em&gt;finally&lt;/em&gt; (whew!), stats are one thing but package and tone are another; &lt;em&gt;The Disenchantments&lt;/em&gt; counts as a male protagonist book published in 2012, but no way can I sell that to a boy. Me and Earl I absolutely can!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maureen, Elizabeth &#8212; I am going to now generalize wildly! In my population (which is small, diverse, and has slightly more girls than boys), I see a few things. I have far more long form narrative readers among girls than boys. A smaller percentage of the girls who read for pleasure regularly exclusively want the books I would classify as &#8220;smart funny contemporary,&#8221; especially the ones that have zero or nearly zero romance. My girls fall into lots of different groups &#8212; I have urban fiction readers, paranormal romance readers, contemporary fiction readers, readers who want more like author X (usually Green, Dessen, or Hopkins), fantasy readers, nondiscriminatory readers, sad book readers, mystery readers, etc. I could slot almost every boy who reads regularly into one of only three or four groups &#8212; sci fi and/or fantasy, nonfiction, and those smart funny contemporary novels. Maybe my male population is less diverse, or maybe the ways we socialize boys about reading has formed these tastes before I ever get them in high school, but either way the effect on their taste is real. </p>
<p>Going back to the question of data &#8212; in my experience, yes, those books exist, but there are relatively few compared to other genres (for lack of a better word) &#8212; with protagonists of either gender. And there are especially relatively few with male protagonists when you cut out the ones that skew to the 12-14 end of YA &#8212; I see a much larger selection in the middle school collection, but my boys don&#8217;t want 8th grade protagonists. There are also books with male protagonists that don&#8217;t fit the rest of the description, all of which matters statistically (and here, and makes for interesting discussion) but matters not a whit for me as a working librarian with flesh and blood students. And <em>finally</em> (whew!), stats are one thing but package and tone are another; <em>The Disenchantments</em> counts as a male protagonist book published in 2012, but no way can I sell that to a boy. Me and Earl I absolutely can!</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen E</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10214</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10214</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth, that&#039;s a fair point. I had a different reading of Karyn&#039;s comment, which was that the &quot;realistic, funny, but not dumb&quot; was a characterization of what the boys in her library like to read whereas the comment about girls was that there is generally more of a volume of girl-protagonist books rather than a claim that there are a ton of girl-protagonist &quot;realistic etc&quot; books. This could be a mis-reading--looking at the comment again, it seems that your response is absolutely equally valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth, that&#8217;s a fair point. I had a different reading of Karyn&#8217;s comment, which was that the &#8220;realistic, funny, but not dumb&#8221; was a characterization of what the boys in her library like to read whereas the comment about girls was that there is generally more of a volume of girl-protagonist books rather than a claim that there are a ton of girl-protagonist &#8220;realistic etc&#8221; books. This could be a mis-reading&#8211;looking at the comment again, it seems that your response is absolutely equally valid.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Fama</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10213</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Fama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10213</guid>
		<description>Hi Maureen! For Karyn&#039;s point, the scarceness of what she calls &quot;realistic, funny but not dumb novels with male protagonists&quot; is perhaps the real issue to focus on, and I think prize-winners in general are not a funny lot. So maybe the Lady business post is not helpful in answering that more specific question. But if we&#039;re allowing ourselves to generalize from anecdotal evidence, I might argue that there don&#039;t in fact seem to be more girl-protagonist books than boy-protagonist books in the category of &quot;realistic, funny, but not dumb&quot; in libraries. But I have much more limited experience than you--does that statement ring true to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Maureen! For Karyn&#8217;s point, the scarceness of what she calls &#8220;realistic, funny but not dumb novels with male protagonists&#8221; is perhaps the real issue to focus on, and I think prize-winners in general are not a funny lot. So maybe the Lady business post is not helpful in answering that more specific question. But if we&#8217;re allowing ourselves to generalize from anecdotal evidence, I might argue that there don&#8217;t in fact seem to be more girl-protagonist books than boy-protagonist books in the category of &#8220;realistic, funny, but not dumb&#8221; in libraries. But I have much more limited experience than you&#8211;does that statement ring true to you?</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen E</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10212</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10212</guid>
		<description>@Elizabeth, actually I would suspect that the pro-boy award bias is a huge factor here. In a phrase I stole from a commenter on Scalzi&#039;s blog, the plural of anecdote is not data--but the books I see visible in my libraries seem to skew girl-wise pretty heavily. Going simply based on the awards will always run into the issue that girl books are seen as less serious and less literary. I&#039;m not exactly disagreeing with you, just that I think Lady Business&#039;s (excellent) breakdown may not apply precisely to Karyn&#039;s point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Elizabeth, actually I would suspect that the pro-boy award bias is a huge factor here. In a phrase I stole from a commenter on Scalzi&#8217;s blog, the plural of anecdote is not data&#8211;but the books I see visible in my libraries seem to skew girl-wise pretty heavily. Going simply based on the awards will always run into the issue that girl books are seen as less serious and less literary. I&#8217;m not exactly disagreeing with you, just that I think Lady Business&#8217;s (excellent) breakdown may not apply precisely to Karyn&#8217;s point?</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Fama</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10210</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Fama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10210</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Most of my female readers, even those with overlapping taste, have plenty to read given the volume of books with female protagonists, which are hellza more common.&lt;/i&gt;

The women over at Lady Business have a very interesting article that chips away at this often-bandied claim. Click &lt;a href=&quot;http://ladybusiness.dreamwidth.org/38016.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; to read it. 

Granted, their analysis looks only at award-winning YA books since 2000--that is, 22 English-language awards--because gathering data on all books published since 2000 is a task I don&#039;t think anyone has achieved (but it&#039;s a dataset Jen J. and I would dearly love to have). So there may be some selection bias if &quot;boy&quot; books are lauded more than &quot;girl&quot; books. Nevertheless, here&#039;s what they found:

In total, 49% of award-winners had male protagonists, 36% had female protagonists, and 15% had both male and female protagonists. They also break the totals down by individual awards, and Printz winners have 61% male, 31% female, and 8% both, while Printz honors have 49% male, 42% female, and 9% both. The Morris awards are dead even at 50% male and 50% female.

(The article also analyzes the gender of award-winning YA authors, if you&#039;re interested in that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Most of my female readers, even those with overlapping taste, have plenty to read given the volume of books with female protagonists, which are hellza more common.</i></p>
<p>The women over at Lady Business have a very interesting article that chips away at this often-bandied claim. Click <a href="http://ladybusiness.dreamwidth.org/38016.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> to read it. </p>
<p>Granted, their analysis looks only at award-winning YA books since 2000&#8211;that is, 22 English-language awards&#8211;because gathering data on all books published since 2000 is a task I don&#8217;t think anyone has achieved (but it&#8217;s a dataset Jen J. and I would dearly love to have). So there may be some selection bias if &#8220;boy&#8221; books are lauded more than &#8220;girl&#8221; books. Nevertheless, here&#8217;s what they found:</p>
<p>In total, 49% of award-winners had male protagonists, 36% had female protagonists, and 15% had both male and female protagonists. They also break the totals down by individual awards, and Printz winners have 61% male, 31% female, and 8% both, while Printz honors have 49% male, 42% female, and 9% both. The Morris awards are dead even at 50% male and 50% female.</p>
<p>(The article also analyzes the gender of award-winning YA authors, if you&#8217;re interested in that.)</p>
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		<title>By: H. Munca</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10202</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Munca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10202</guid>
		<description>Wot? No, no, I&#039;m trying to create work for OTHER people, and stuff to read for me. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wot? No, no, I&#8217;m trying to create work for OTHER people, and stuff to read for me. <img src='http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Karyn Silverman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10201</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Silverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10201</guid>
		<description>I LOVE Seraphina. And if it&#039;s eligible, it would be the top of my Morris picks; I think it&#039;s in my top 5 for the Printz too, but I haven&#039;t finished (or really done more than jot notes for) a post about it, and I am finding that often the process of writing up a book sways me one way or the other. But it&#039;s definitely towards the top of my list. However, Rachel Hartman had a series of self-published indy comics about 10 years back, I think (I&#039;m going off memory and will verify when I have a minute) and those might render Seraphina &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; a debut for Morris purposes. Which would be a shame.

H.Munca, I was just thinking the same thing about a Morris blog. There are enough debuts this year for nearly daily posts if that Goodreads list is accurate. You volunteering?

Christopher, I&#039;m assuming from the context that by chuffed you meant annoyed, not pleased, yes? In which case, let me clarify my position about Me and Earl being a &quot;boy book&quot; -- I am talking about the characters. I&#039;m not gendering the general audience. I do confess to targeting boys among my own students, but only because I have a number of male readers who like realistic, funny but not dumb novels with male protagonists, and frankly, there aren&#039;t that many books like that. Most of my female readers, even those with overlapping taste, have plenty to read given the volume of books with female protagonists, which are hellza more common. But that&#039;s a whole other ball of wax. As far as Me and Earl goes, I just think it&#039;s an awesome book ABOUT boys.

In the off season, maybe we should have a revisit the best oldies that deserved the Printz only it didn&#039;t exist thread. We&#039;ll put Kestrel on the discussion list. First on the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I LOVE Seraphina. And if it&#8217;s eligible, it would be the top of my Morris picks; I think it&#8217;s in my top 5 for the Printz too, but I haven&#8217;t finished (or really done more than jot notes for) a post about it, and I am finding that often the process of writing up a book sways me one way or the other. But it&#8217;s definitely towards the top of my list. However, Rachel Hartman had a series of self-published indy comics about 10 years back, I think (I&#8217;m going off memory and will verify when I have a minute) and those might render Seraphina <em>not</em> a debut for Morris purposes. Which would be a shame.</p>
<p>H.Munca, I was just thinking the same thing about a Morris blog. There are enough debuts this year for nearly daily posts if that Goodreads list is accurate. You volunteering?</p>
<p>Christopher, I&#8217;m assuming from the context that by chuffed you meant annoyed, not pleased, yes? In which case, let me clarify my position about Me and Earl being a &#8220;boy book&#8221; &#8212; I am talking about the characters. I&#8217;m not gendering the general audience. I do confess to targeting boys among my own students, but only because I have a number of male readers who like realistic, funny but not dumb novels with male protagonists, and frankly, there aren&#8217;t that many books like that. Most of my female readers, even those with overlapping taste, have plenty to read given the volume of books with female protagonists, which are hellza more common. But that&#8217;s a whole other ball of wax. As far as Me and Earl goes, I just think it&#8217;s an awesome book ABOUT boys.</p>
<p>In the off season, maybe we should have a revisit the best oldies that deserved the Printz only it didn&#8217;t exist thread. We&#8217;ll put Kestrel on the discussion list. First on the list.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10199</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 02:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10199</guid>
		<description>I get a little chuffed every time someone says that Me and Earl and the Dying Girl is strictly a boys book. Many of the teens I&#039;ve given this to are girls and, when I sat in on the BFYA Teen session at Annual this year, all of the readers who spoke glowingly about this book were girls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get a little chuffed every time someone says that Me and Earl and the Dying Girl is strictly a boys book. Many of the teens I&#8217;ve given this to are girls and, when I sat in on the BFYA Teen session at Annual this year, all of the readers who spoke glowingly about this book were girls.</p>
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		<title>By: H. Munca</title>
		<link>http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/2012/11/13/more-roundup-debut-style/#comment-10196</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Munca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.slj.com/printzblog/?p=1690#comment-10196</guid>
		<description>And how come the Morris doesn&#039;t have its own speculation blog? Or does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how come the Morris doesn&#8217;t have its own speculation blog? Or does it?</p>
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